Thursday, December 18, 2008

Reactions to Sundin signing in Vancouver

A bitter Leafs fan:

Yeah I am throwing Sundin under the bus, but its no less than what he deserves - he threw the fans under the bus when he refused to be traded for futures, and elongated Toronto's trip to the cup by at least another 3 years - he went on record about not wanting to be a rental player...blah blah blah

Whatever Mats - your reputation is finally come to light, and you wouldn't even go to a Rangers team in better contention for the cup - do you honestly think that Vancouver team will make it past Detroit? San Jose? Please...lets remember the OTHER reason your going to Vancouver - that its almost guaranteed you'll be gone in the first or second round of the playoffs if you make it there...

Vancouver - get used to Sundin eating up all the ice time with a "one-man-show" and robbing your young players of development and points...your going to come to the same conclusion Toronto is finally coming to: that maybe he just wasn't worth it...
1. Sundin didn't have to lift his NTC if he didn't want to. It's not his fault the Leafs put themselves in a shitty position by pissing away good talent to sign overpriced veterans.
2. The Rangers team is not in better contention to win a Cup necessarily. Injuries and Cinderella teams can pop up at any time. Just for shits and giggles, I think that if the Devils are healthy come April, I'd say they are my favorite to make some playoff noise over most teams including the Rangers. The Capitals should go furthur than the Rangers as well.
3. Don't call Sundin a "one-man show." He has been carrying deadbeats for linemates for some years now. Think Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Reichel, Hoglund, etc and he still put up a point-per-game numbers.
4. Robbing young players of points? Maybe in Toronto! The way Vigneault juggles lines, I think Sundin will make some young guys score MORE points.

So 54% of people are smart and the other 46% need a lobotomy.

Darren Dreger from TSN:

The expectation is the Vancouver Canucks will still have approximately $2.5 million in cap space remaining, which means the team will be able to potentially take on a player earning around $6 million at some point in the New Year using the prorated formula.

While Sundin will walk away from the 2008–09 season with close to $5 million in his pocket, he's leaving some on the table and giving Canucks general manager Mike Gillis the flexibility to land another top six forward through a trade.
While that is a great thought, we don't need to become the Maple Leafs now. A major injury to a quality player will force Gillis' hand into another signing or trade, IMO.

Henrik Lundqvist to Hockeyexpressen:

"Oh, hell ... it was a shame. But clearly, if there is now about twice as high wages, then it is difficult to say no," Henke spontaneously commented.
Roughly translated, but you get his drift. He needs some Kleenex.

I know I'm evil...I loved seeing Naslund look sad in an interview today expressing that was unfortunate that the Rangers couldn't get Sundin and that Mats will make Vancouver a better team. Thanks for leaving Markus! The $6 million you took with you is going towards Sundin's salary! Thanks buddy! Have fun in Manhattan!

That poll asks how Sundin will do in Vancouver: Success, fine or fiasco were the options. I can't get Hockeyexpressen's polls to load up, but I believe over 80% of Swedes wanted Sundin to play in New York. Must be the love affair they have for Lundqvist and maybe Naslund.

Still nothing up at the Rangers page in the New York Post. I guess eating crow for dinner sucks hey?

Nothing up about Sundin to Van at the Rangers home site either. Are you guys not used to being told "no"?

Fine then, I'll go to the Rangers forum at the HF Boards:

we are ****ed now

Let this be a lesson, it's all about the ******* money, I honestly hope he doesn't score a single point all season, after dragging this out so long just to take the money anyway. LARRY BROOKS=NO CREDIBILITY so much for Sundin itching to play here, FAN590=NO CREDIBILITY, EKLUND=NO CREDIBILITY, NEVER HAD ANY ANYWAY. I hope Vancouver comes in next year which I doubt so I can boo the **** outta Sundin
-now here is a guy who knows what he's talking about!

I just don't get it. Why are you guys so down on your team? EFF Mats Sundin. What the hell has Mats Sundin "The Savior" ever won in this league? He was never going to suddenly propel the Rangers into Cup land.

With that said, so many of you are really down on your team. I just don't get it. They aren't losing, in fact, they keep winning inspite of all the negatives around here. Drury is coming on, Rosival just had an awesome game, Henrik is amazing, Vally is one of the best backup's in this league.

I just don't understand.. is being a first place team this miserable? I can't put my finger on what the hell you guys feel is wrong with your team. I just don't freaking get it.
Another guy who knows what he's talking about.

Here's a lousy fail by one Rangers fan at He asked the question a couple of days ago: "Should I have sewn the "A" on my (Sundin Rangers) jersey? Bwahaha!
Tip to the CDC Forum guys for finding that one.

What are Canucks fans saying?

The Yankee Canuck is not impressed:

My heart sunk a little when I saw the TSN graphic. I disagree with Leaf-Happy Sean that this makes us a contender. Why? Because we already were and now have no cap space when we get nailed with injuries (like, oh, last night when O’Brien and Salo went down) or when we have a shot at acquiring a younger player who will stay longer than a few months and could be another crucial building block. Honestly, I still stand by every line I said when I asked him to go away.
Dreger pointed out the cap space flexiblity we have. Gillis wants to win NOW. Were the Canucks a contender before Sundin? Anything is possible when you get to the dance. But I think Sundin gives us a much better chance. Look at how deep we are at center now! Look at how deep Detroit was at center when they won the Cup. From the goaltending-out we're looking pretty good.
But Mike does raise good questions in NOW what does this mean for the contract negotiations with the Sedins, Ohlund and Raymond? Well, here is what I think: Sundin only signed for 1 year. Next year he may bolt. Gillis will know that by next July. So it seems that contract negotiations with those players has been broken off for now. That OR Ohlund will get moved at the trade deadline. There are all sorts of options still. I don't know about you guys, but I think this Canucks team has what it takes to win NOW. So go for it, Gillis! Do I fear San Jose in the playoffs? No. Why? Because Joe Thornton turns into a sleeping yard ape in the playoffs. He didn't carry the Sharks last year.

The Humming Giraffe is also a Cautious Giraffe:

With a healthy Lui, that line up is pretty sick. The idea of announcers calling Sedin, Sedin, Sundin on the power play does amuse me. I’m…cautiously optimistic. Canucks fans should always be cautious.
I understand how Canucks fans feel they need to be cautious. But this time I really think Gillis deserves praise and we should feel plain ol' optimistic.

Miss 604:

Former Maple Leaf Kyle Wellwood seems to be working out for us (mind you there’s still some name calling going around), but are Vancouver fans ready to accept another Leaf on our ice?
Are Canucks fans that sad that they refuse to accept former Leafs? Yeah, it was there with Wellwood coming here and I stood by him 100%. Look at him now. Sundin will exceed Kyle Wellwood and Canucks fans will chant his name, once they get over being cautious.
I guess I have to post some Sundin clips to get some Canucks fans excited. Do you really know who we just signed today? A guy that had 79 points in 73 games last season. A guy that wants to be here. A character guy in the locker room. A team player. A leader. Has Gillis let us down yet? Au contraire. The guy flogged 2 fan faves in Morrison and Naslund and turned us into a contending team with balls. What more do you want? When are you going to trust him? (Complete list of Gillis moves here.)

I couldn't get into Canucks and Beyond for a while there, but I see Alanah more or less shares my sentiments.
Sweet dreams, Canucks fans. And say bye-bye to the Canucks cap space breathing room we enjoyed for a while. But that’s okay—having barely a single dime left in the bank feels like everything is back to normal in our world.

And one final thought: I’m betting that Sundin looks pretty awful for a while, but he’ll improve fast. He’s in good shape. But that won’t stop everyone from suggesting he’s washed up while he’s getting back into game shape.

So just have patience—I expect he’ll be a factor in no time.
The commenters on her post are mostly thrilled as well. Good stuff.

I gotta be honest with you: I am so glad this damned saga is over with. Since July I have pathetically been reading Swedish newspapers at night seeing if there was any peak into the Sundin situation. I have shamelessly covered most of the painful story here since the summer. As pathetic as that may seem or was, it now seems worth it...

And speaking of worth it......

T Tags:

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At December 18, 2008 at 10:44 p.m. , Blogger Billy said...

I will admit a grudging excitement I suppose. I've been a hard-line Nucks fan for as long as i've had an awareness of hockey and I HATE foolin myself. That said, Sundin makes us legit contenders, and it might just make us a desirable place near the deadline for some upgrades.

Impressive posting by the way, is this blog always this well updated?

Final thoughts, lets enjoy this optimism and hope for as long as we can.

At December 18, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

Thanks, Billy. Yeah, I just updated again. Swedish paper have the Ohlund-Sedin reactions already.
Great stuff.
Be excited, Billy. Be excited!

At December 19, 2008 at 4:10 a.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

My concerns are, more or less, two:

1. I have severe doubts that one man, even one that brings Sundin's stats with him, will make a marked difference when the time comes. He SHOULD be able to help game to game (or, rather, he damn well better for that money) but I don't see us as any scarier a playoff team with Sundin up front. And as we all know the playoffs is hardly a lock. Lots of hockey left.

2. As it stand now, on July 1, this team will not have Daniel, Henrik, Mattias, Nycholat, Pyatt or Mats. (Bernier, Wellwood, Brown, Rypien, Hansen, O'Brien are all RFAs). And Luongo is in the final year. Regardless of what happens now Gillis has a lot to do with the future of this team if you assume the Sedins, Ohlund, Luongo and even Wellwood are part of that future.

3. Since we now know that Sundin is willing to be a rental player, at least we can move him if the Canucks aren't going to make it. Or so I assume since he fucked the Leafs last year on the same concept.

At December 19, 2008 at 4:18 a.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

Oh, and if you wanted Larry Brooks to chime in, swallow your poison :)

At December 19, 2008 at 8:00 a.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. The Canucks will make a playoff-Cup push and deal with the contracts later. Sundin will probably go bye-bye after the playoff run and Gillis may or may not resign those guys.
Remember, Gillis isn't sure if he can build the team around the Twins anyway. If we can't make 3 playoff rounds or more with THIS team, I'd let the Sedins go as well.... or shake things up further. Gillis seems pretty trigger-happy when it comes to dealing. And now we know he has power to lure players here.

At December 19, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. , Blogger Temujin said...

I don't see us as any scarier a playoff team with Sundin up front.

You should, Mike. Take a look at Sundins playoff numbers. And think about the fact that he had anchors named Hoglund, Reichel, Renberg, Antopov and Ponikarovsky strapped to each limb the whole time. :-)

At December 19, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

Sean - Oh come on! The power to draw players? He had the cash! I guarantee you if Sather hadn't blown his wad in July, this would be a different story. That's the name of the game, certainly not a bad thing.

And I know he doesn't have to resign any of the three I mentioned, I just think he should. At least one of them (I'll count the Sedins as one). Unless Gillis thinks he can go shopping for three top six guys and a top four defensemen and that seems a bit much (or, worse yet, a Tampa like solution to team building). Since our depth is at defense, my hunch now is Ohlund will get moved at the deadline and the Twins get resigned.

And three playoff rounds? NOW who's getting ahead of himself?! Seriously I want a sample of whatevers in that pipe you're smoking.

Temujin - his numbers are great, sure. They're also old, like pre-lockout old. And Burnside referenced how guys like Holik and others shut him down almost everytime. He's older, this is a new team (one that is not that much better in the offseason then his Leaf buddies) and the pace of the game is not kind to aging guys (see Recchi, Leclair or what's left of Roberts).

Are we better a team then this time yesterday? Sure. Are we scarier when it comes to put up or shut up time? I don't see how you can claim we are until he and this team prove it.

And, yes, I want some of your upper too please. :)

At December 19, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

Wait a minute...last time I checked, Recchi still has the wheels. He has 17 points this season and is cheap! We need him too! haha
While I may agree that $10 million was a little much, it did the trick. If you don't think we are a serious threat up front right now, then we are not watching the same team. 2 years ago the Sedins were shadowed in the playoffs and the Ducks blew us out of the water in Round 2. Hell, we barely got out of round 1 by scoring 2 goals per game.
Teams can shadow the Twins all they want to now. Because now Sundin -Demitra and Kesler-Burrows-Hansen will be coming at you as well. We are deadly in all areas. You actually do need some BC pot. :)
I cant believe you don't see 3 playoff rounds from this team if they make the playoffs. We have Luongo! We have 3 lines that can score!
We have a formidable D corps. The time to win is NOW! So I'm glad Gillis made made the extra cap space and got M-m--mm-m Mats.
If that means we have to hold off on Sedin negotiations until May or June then so be it. The Twins don't want to leave here anyway. They'll be patient.

As far as drawing players goes...Gillis has now attracted Demitra AND Sundin. His being a former player agent has helped. Vancouver needs to turn into a winning atmosphere and a place where free agents may feel drawn to, regardless of the travel schedule.
This team needs to win a Cup.

I don't know what Ohlund will demand...but we should't pay him $6 million to stick around. D-men shouldn't be that expensive unless they put up 60 points and are named Lidstrom or Niedermayer.

Sundin will prove you wrong, Mike. You didn't like Wellwood either...hahaha.

At December 19, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

True, I didn't like Wellwood. I also thought Rypien would be healthy this year. Swing and a miss strike two.

re: attracting players - I can't buy the argument Sundin would have picked us had any other suitor had the dough. Demitra, from all accounts, did want to be here and I have no idea why (other then his connection to Gillis).

re: shadowing the Sedins. I got news for ya: if the 2006-07 Ducks were to play these Canucks, then Sundin is no better off then friggin Naslund was. I do think that's the best part of having him though (freeing up the twins). That and some PP help would be nice. Oh and not pulling his a Sami Salo in the first ten games would be good too.

re: the playoffs is a shitshow. No could have predicted the Flames a few years ago, the Oilers after them or even what Dallas did last year. Crazy crap happens, far above what one guy (who has never lead his own team to any post season success) can do.

Maybe I just hate old people? Probably.

At December 19, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. , Blogger Temujin said...

As always Mike, you're a rational jolt of reality, but I'm caught up with optimism and I think it's justified.

The past eight years, Mats has remained a solid point-per game producer. Markus' production has consistently decreased from a little better than P-P-G, to 55 points in 82 games last year. There's just no comparison, imo, between the two players and what they bring. Oh, and did I mention Mats has 5 inches and 40 pounds on Markus (and I ain't talking dirty... even though that may very be the case also!).

The price is high, but not unmanageable and we still have cap space. The others Swedes seem energized, the fanbase is jacked right up, and we ADDED without SUBTRACTING.


At December 19, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

Temujin: As you know, I am nothing if not a complete asshole. :)

I certainly wasn't comparing Naslund to Sundin straight up; more that in a hard fought playoff series, Sundin is THE guy that will get clamped down on now. In addition, he's not a point per game guy in the playoffs and he's surrounded by a bunch who certainly aren't even remotely close to a point per game (of the top five scorers on Vancouver - Demitra, Daniel, Henrik, Kesler and Bieksa - Demitra has the best with .65 pts/g in the post season). So, no matter how you slice the reality of the situation, there are lots of hurdles there.

For reference you should check this out (I won't mention the site where I found it because they're evil) but it shows the dropoff in production for an NHL player from 36 t0 37. So we can start guessing what Sundin's dropoff WILL be.


And, sure we added without subtracting. That's a positive definitely. But none of us will know, due to a six month wait, what other additions could have come our way that wouldn't have just helped now but would have been around past July 1. And for maybe far less money.

The best part about Sundin, to me, is that it may send a message to FA's about what Gillis is about, he damn well better help with the power play, and he frees the sedins (I get to say "unleash the twins" now in liveblogs. tits!). Assuming he does all of that, is that worth the price?

We can all be happy or sad or on the fence with him being a Canuck. But I simply cannot get excited about this guy until I see him contribute what Vigneault does with the lines. Until then we're all just playing EA Sports '09 in our heads (which, by the way, I have done and Sundin is good in the game. Bernier, conversely, is a fucking train wreck).

At December 19, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

I don't like that spreadsheet Mike! heheh. Piss on it. Stats can be circumstancial. Not all players on that list were worse.

I believe Gillis is creating a better atmosphere for FA's to want to come here. To me, the money is worth it all things considered.

Oh yeah!! I gotta add Sundin to the Nucks in NHL 09! I used to do that in previous NHL games. Now it's actually for real. Woo!
Bernier isn't all that impressive on 09 is he?
On mine, Mason Raymond is gold!

At December 19, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. , Blogger Temujin said...

Dibs on Sundin for the Victoria Beavers in our create-team games :-)

At December 19, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

OK, I guess I owe you that one for stealing Forsberg.... :(

Hey Mike, another big thing for Vancouver...we need to draft better. I like how Hodgson is shaping up for the near future. The Canucks need to excel on draft days as well from now on. That way when you go for the Cup when the time is right you still have resources in the spare tank.

At December 19, 2008 at 2:33 p.m. , Anonymous Mike said...

They definitely need to draft better. Though I feel cautiously optimistic with this year's selections and the Edler, Raymond and Kesler choices of the past few years obviously.

The jury is still out on Grabner, White, Rahimi, Koltsov (where the hell is he?) and when I think of the 2000 draft blood squirts out of my ears.

An aside - I'd like to see Sundin return for the 12/28 Ottawa game. Just to get his blood boiling again. That is if the docs are cool with having him get so worked up at his age (zing!)

At December 19, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

Oh no! Now the Sundin hack jokes start! Boo! What a guy....
Koltsov...hmmm. When no one can find a Russian they usually have been tagged by the mob.

At December 21, 2008 at 3:20 a.m. , Anonymous don harris said...

mat sundin is a traitor and a liar retire a leaf b.s. doesn't want to be a rental player b.s. selfish self centered egotistically piece of garbage. he hurt the leafs the fans and the not leaving with integrity he will forever be blackballed by die hard leaf fans such as me . he owed the fans for the years of loyalty we showed him. i always stood up for him when people said he wasn't a good captain. they were right i was wrong.too bad we can't remove him from any and all leave records. i am hurt and dissappointed in you mats. p.s i hope you get injured.

At December 21, 2008 at 3:26 a.m. , Anonymous don harris said...

bounty on mats sundin
1 slightly used mats sundin leaf jersey in good condition .
p.s mats you were a role model now your just an over paid athelete. i am praying to the hockey gods for you to get injured.

At December 21, 2008 at 11:36 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

holy hell. I guess I can understand bitterness out of Toronto a little bit because he was in T.O. for so long. But he owed you guys nothing in the end. Management signs him to a deal with a no trade clause...well tough luck.
Don't toss him to the wolves yet. For all we know he could return to Toronto next year.
In the meantime, enjoy the fact that the mangement of your team is finally rebuilding and putting the Leafs in a better position on the ice and financially.

At December 23, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. , Blogger Kent said...

love the back and forth Canucks fans have on this subject... nice to see people aren't all in the parade-planning mode like some of the press... not that I don't like this move, because I do. I am just cautiously optimistic. The real beauty part is the pain Leafs fans are feeling. welcome to our world, bitches. lol. I do like whoever suggested Recchi, too. He can still contribute (17 points on a gawd-awful Thrashers team), proven leadership and a handful of stanley cup rings would be good to have in the dressing room around playoff time. Sure, I am a bit of a homer when it comes to Recchi (he and I were in the same summer school class in grade 8) but there is no denying the guy's talent.

At December 23, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. , Blogger Sean Zandberg said...

I have wanted Recchi here for years. It just plain old makes sense to get him.


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Waiting For Stanley was created in June 2006.